1. It is game, i like serious
1.1. Marleen said that this looks like for children
1.2. M1 said that he doesn't like that this is 'game' like and focuses rather on the game, than on 'serious' stuff.
1.3. It is okay but I don’t know how good it is for people who are serious about learning a language
2. questionnair improvement
2.1. we need more detailed info on how many languages people speak. Because people who speak 1 language is one story. 2 langauges another and 4+ languages as well another story.
2.2. also how much time did they spend last week learning
2.3. and how much time last month
3. what they like,
3.1. you can play this on the bus and during microbreaks
4. problems learning
4.1. I forget easily because I do not repeat or use the words often enough.
4.1.1. Dimitry: But is this really a problem? Maybe one is not supposed to recall everything they tried to 'cram' into themselves? Maybe 'forgetting' words is natural way of learning and learner shouldn't be punished for that?
4.2. get reminders from babbel, but do not feel motivated to repeat them.
5. do you really learn smth by doing that?
5.1. just play for highscore, rather than learning
5.1.1. You look for a highscore instead of looking for what the word means.
5.1.2. Marleen: do you really learn?
5.2. Zone out and match by color
5.3. I think that eventually, as I get tired I guess I would just follow the sound without actually learning.
5.4. how do you know that this has given effect?
5.5. I don’t think it helps you learn the vocabulary, it looks like it helps you practice what you already know.
5.6. Dimitry: That sounds like a fair point, because we really do not have solid statistical proof that his way really produces result. It looks like it helped me, but you never know.
6. usage patterns
6.1. frequency
6.1.1. toilet app
6.1.2. on the bus
6.1.3. on 'microbreaks'
6.1.3.1. If working good for me, maybe 4-5 times a day. Maybe a couple of minutes each time.
6.1.3.2. Should be possible to use app while sitting on the toilet, e.g: should be possible to use in short periods, like 1 minute here and 2 minutes there.
6.2. usage cycle
6.3. hours spent
6.3.1. 2-5h per week
6.3.1.1. It is interesting to know: is it at all possible to learn language only doing 3-5h per week? (i mean: if group of people learns 3-5h per week: will they actually learn? juding from the school and courses, for very few this approach results in learning
7. improve
7.1. make like full blown game
7.1.1. Need to make it more interesting, make it an entire game like word matching but with colors, characters, some sort of story behind it.
7.2. suggestions
7.2.1. game against opponent
7.3. too much 'randomness' uncertainty, unknown for a total beginner
8. not challenging enough
8.1. Doesn’t look like it will keep me motivated, it’s too simple of a game.
9. pay for app
9.1. need a reason to pay. would only buy if reviews are good
9.2. Paradox: for courses which most likely will fail to make them fluent: they're ready to pay $100-500$, but for app which can keep them motivated $1
9.3. I would prefer not to pay, because there are many competing language learning apps that are free.
9.3.1. Dimitry: fair point. If it is launched to the market, it will compete with others. And that's true - other apps are free..
9.4. Dimitry: at the moment, finding the precise monetization model is too early. However it is important to start understanding some general idea of what we can expect, or what factors we will have to take into account when estimating market size etc.
9.5. Dimitry: maybe you really cannot sell the app for much money. But maybe we can sell the 'learning success'? Because so far what we were showing to people was'prototype of a game which we (not stanford professors) think may (or may not) help you learn vocabulary (but maybe they don't give a shit about vocabulary that much. maybe they need success learning language. You don't sell tyres to bus passenger, you sell him trip from A to B.)
9.6. Dimitry: what if we try crowdsourcing?
10. how can help
10.1. helps by exposing to words
11. needs
11.1. articulated needs 'things they think they need'
11.1.1. Ability to choose words
11.1.2. standard 'stuff'
11.1.2.1. pronunciation
11.1.2.2. word sentences
11.1.2.3. word order
11.1.3. I think is it difficult to know which words and phrases that are used in real life, and not just written in text books/learning sites.
11.1.3.1. Dimitry: that's very interesting. She points out that there's a gap between what you learn in class and what is really used in real life. Jo: I agree. She told me she solves this problem by watching movies to pick up which phrases that are actually used by people. Often, greeting phrases etc taught in text books are completely different from the actual phrases that are used between native speakers in a casual conversation.
11.1.4. Yes, but has no opportunities to practice and use it.
11.1.5. Yes, problem that it is sometimes hard to follow a schedule. Could be solved by not requiring the learner to follow a strict plan, but rather customize the plan according to the user's speed.
11.1.6. By having someone do do it together with.No, the problem is rather that I have nobody to to the assignment with.
11.2. subtle / unconscious needs
11.2.1. They have a preconception of 'how the language should be learned'. One of the subtle needs may be: leading them around that misconception to the correct innovative way
11.2.2. Dimitry: maybe 'learning model' of 'read words and meanings for the first time, try to memorize them, and then repeat' - is outdated. It seems it is failing on almost every person who's learning.
11.2.3. get addicted
11.2.3.1. It would make me motivated if I got addicted.
11.2.4. Dimitry: judging to how many people fail to learn a language it appears that the general conclusion is learning language is EXTREMELY DIFFICULT. (hard to find time, hard to get pass grammar, hard to go through the first year when you make mistakes in every 2nd word.
11.2.5. Dimitry: when people say that they 'need motivation to learn' - in the reality it rather means : 'need motivation to force ourselves into this full-of-suffer process of learning'. When most of people meet the language learning process: they get frustrated and unhappy and demotivated very quickly. So it's natural reaction - to avoid doing. So it is important not to fool ourselves, thinking that they need motivation, when in the reality - there will never be motivation if the process of learning is pure suffer. What they need is 'get addicted' or 'hooked up' on 'learning'.
11.2.6. Dimitry: people say they can't find time. But here we need to be careful as well in interpretation of their words. As the words may obscure the context. When someone says: 'Oh.. I can't find time to play my favorite WoW!" and 'Oh.. i can't find time to learn French' - these are two absolutely different problems. Which just happened to be denoted by the same 'sentence'.
11.2.6.1. 'Oh.. I can't find time to play my favorite WoW!"
11.2.6.2. 'Oh.. i can't find time to learn French
11.2.7. get role model: someone they can follow
11.2.7.1. maybe just a successful learner
11.2.7.2. maybe it can be a celebrity subscribed to the service and you can follow what 'Bradd Pitt' learned today
11.2.7.3. Benny the polyglot is not really a right role model. Basically because people can't follow him: he's full time language student and the rest of folk only have 2-5h per week to do stuff.
11.2.8. Maybe they need to study not alone
11.2.8.1. Maybe they just need 'study groups' - study within a group of 3-4 students?
11.2.8.1.1. Or maybe system randomly assigns teams of 3-4 users for the practise tasks?
11.2.9. Need to get shown that you can start speaking from day 1. (speaking I mean: say meaningful sentences, not the 'hello how r u shit'.
11.2.9.1. DK: imagine we do that through allowing them to 'babyspeak' about their day with the help of 'island map' or 'wordPiano'? They can start talking the first day. Or they may talk to their 'groupmaster' if they have this 'groupmaster' they follow.